dirty meat and shot placement

Shot more Impala yesterday, same thing. I was able to study the carcass more carefully and I really feel that the bullet is coming apart just before exiting.
I will now load up a harder bullet and test it.

To me that looks like the animal ran a lot before it passed out from blood loss. The running pulls blood into the damaged connective tissue.

There are 2 different processes that involve meat damage:

1) Damage to the tissue immediately around the path of the bullet hole characterized by dark red meat a few cm around the bullet hole. This is made worse the faster the bullet is traveling due to shock. This is worse with lead bullets that fragment and the lead particles spread through the muscle tissue. This also is bad when you strike bone, and the bone fragments have the same effect as lead fragments. The cause of the colour change is fragmentation of capillary network of the surrounding tissue, causing a blood infiltrate. Since the capillaries in the tissue are small, the extent of the blood flow is limited. Less pronounced with mono's unless you hit bone.

2) Tissue infiltrate, which is what I see in the picture, where the animal is bleeding from engine room damage (hint: major vessels) and there is a path open between the source of the blood and the network of connective tissue that is found in the facia between the muscle layers. As the animal runs away, the movement between the layers pulls the blood in, and is a b1tch to get rid of. When you cut through, the meat (muscle) is clean and free of the above (point 1). Can happen with both monos and cup and core and severity is associated with the time the animal takes to die and the amount the animal moves after being shot.

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No ! - this is a lot of jello, spread far between muscles.

The red jello is clotted blood, mixed in with the spongy connective tissue. The blood spreads when it is in liquid form, and the animal is alive. By the time it is dead and you cut it up, it has clotted.

Maybe you should shoot the animals with a heparin injection, so that the blood will wash out easily ;D

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/what-is-behind-the-shocking-number-of-deaths-linked-to-lead-poisoning/

Lead kills both ways. The hunted and the hunter.

Lead kills, ;D

You mostly have an in and out on monos. There is some bloodshot meat that could be on both sides, but the very snotty blood is not normally present and it washes off reasonably well. I have seen similar bloodshot meat as the carcass in the pictures. This was due to shooting with a mono 175 old Barnes X in my 7x64. The bullet was poorly stabilized and seems to have hit the kudu cow length wise.

If it is due to the bullet, it should be controllable with other types of bullets.

Sierra makes their Gameking in 150gr and 160gr.

Question: can someone say what happens whit mono bullets?

Do you have access to an x-ray machine? Maybe at a vet? It would show lead fragments.

I saw a yoochoob vid some time back when lead bullets were being banned by the companies in the UK that buy game meat from recreational hunters and professional harvesters. Their xrays of lead bullet shot animals were interesting as they showed quite substantial intrusion and dispersion of lead into the meat even where there was no obvious visual cues of it. The commercial buyers banned lead projectiles in their supply chain long before the government got to it.

Quite an explosive round - ELDX

Do you have access to an x-ray machine? Maybe at a vet? It would show lead fragments.

Food for thought/suggestion: dark (used) blood causes dark, gooey clumps, maybe because it flows slower. Light (arterial) blood causes large, slimey haemorrhages because it is under higher pressure.
???
Further question: does this occur mainly/mostly on one side of the animal (related to anatomy), or on both sides - bullet-related?

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Both side and sideways and in out every where - just this rifle and bullet - its this bullet, I am convinced of this.

Food for thought/suggestion: dark (used) blood causes dark, gooey clumps, maybe because it flows slower. Light (arterial) blood causes large, slimey haemorrhages because it is under higher pressure.

???

Further question: does this occur mainly/mostly on one side of the animal (related to anatomy), or on both sides - bullet-related?

When blood from the chest cavity bleeds into the area around the wound, it usually leaves a thick, dark, gooey clump of blood. In some cases I have cleaned it, and the meat was still edible.

The haemorrhage in the photo looks and works differently - it is usually lighter blood, and it penetrates the slimey tissue between the skin and the muscles, as well as the muscles themselves. Trying to clean this is really tough because everything is gooey.

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KORECKTEEEEEEEE O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very messy, we are now just cutting 4 - 5 kg out and dumping, just not worth anything else.

When blood from the chest cavity bleeds into the area around the wound, it usually leaves a thick, dark, gooey clump of blood. In some cases I have cleaned it, and the meat was still edible.

The haemorrhage in the photo looks and works differently - it is usually lighter blood, and it penetrates the slimey tissue between the skin and the muscles, as well as the muscles themselves. Trying to clean this is really tough because everything is gooey.

The Hornady Interlock bullets are not very hard and deform very quickly. This might explain the blood under the skin on entry.

To me that looks like the animal ran a lot before it passed out from blood loss. The running pulls blood into the damaged connective tissue.

There are 2 different processes that involve meat damage:

1) Damage to the tissue immediately around the path of the bullet hole characterized by dark red meat a few cm around the bullet hole. This is made worse the faster the bullet is traveling due to shock. This is worse with lead bullets that fragment and the lead particles spread through the muscle tissue. This also is bad when you strike bone, and the bone fragments have the same effect as lead fragments. The cause of the colour change is fragmentation of capillary network of the surrounding tissue, causing a blood infiltrate. Since the capillaries in the tissue are small, the extent of the blood flow is limited. Less pronounced with mono's unless you hit bone.

2) Tissue infiltrate, which is what I see in the picture, where the animal is bleeding from engine room damage (hint: major vessels) and there is a path open between the source of the blood and the network of connective tissue that is found in the facia between the muscle layers. As the animal runs away, the movement between the layers pulls the blood in, and is a b1tch to get rid of. When you cut through, the meat (muscle) is clean and free of the above (point 1). Can happen with both monos and cup and core and severity is associated with the time the animal takes to die and the amount the animal moves after being shot.

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No ! - this is a lot of jello, spread far between muscles.

Did that animal drop quickly or did it run some distance after the shot?

From what I have seen with hunters who come here to shoot, it occurs more often when they hit both lungs, but the animal runs a fair distance before expiring. The theory is that the punctured lungs forces a lot of blood out the new hole and into the surrounding tissue. I have seen this irrespective of the calibre used. It is just a little more pronounced with faster bullets.

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20 m max before falling, usually on the spot.
BUT !
The bigger question is why is it so pronounced this rifle combination ?

To me that looks like the animal ran a lot before it passed out from blood loss. The running pulls blood into the damaged connective tissue.

There are 2 different processes that involve meat damage:

1) Damage to the tissue immediately around the path of the bullet hole characterized by dark red meat a few cm around the bullet hole. This is made worse the faster the bullet is traveling due to shock. This is worse with lead bullets that fragment and the lead particles spread through the muscle tissue. This also is bad when you strike bone, and the bone fragments have the same effect as lead fragments. The cause of the colour change is fragmentation of capillary network of the surrounding tissue, causing a blood infiltrate. Since the capillaries in the tissue are small, the extent of the blood flow is limited. Less pronounced with mono's unless you hit bone.

2) Tissue infiltrate, which is what I see in the picture, where the animal is bleeding from engine room damage (hint: major vessels) and there is a path open between the source of the blood and the network of connective tissue that is found in the facia between the muscle layers. As the animal runs away, the movement between the layers pulls the blood in, and is a b1tch to get rid of. When you cut through, the meat (muscle) is clean and free of the above (point 1). Can happen with both monos and cup and core and severity is associated with the time the animal takes to die and the amount the animal moves after being shot.

Did that animal drop quickly or did it run some distance after the shot?

From what I have seen with hunters who come here to shoot, it occurs more often when they hit both lungs, but the animal runs a fair distance before expiring. The theory is that the punctured lungs forces a lot of blood out the new hole and into the surrounding tissue. I have seen this irrespective of the calibre used. It is just a little more pronounced with faster bullets.

I contacted a PH friend. He said that it has occurred often when animals were calm and not aware of the hunters.

Another probable explanation would be something related to blood pressure.

And it could be a combination of both.

BUT WHY< WHY IS THIS HAPPENING<

What is going on here.

What&#039;s the weight of that bullet? Looks like its shed quite a bit? Possibly a bonded version going forward?

I have had the same with 308, 180gr @ 2400fps.

Guys, I have a problem ! This 7mm08 of Cody&#039;s is just causing so much meat damage - I just can not work it out.
Animal is Impala - fallow deer
7 mm Hornady Interlock 154 gr
velocity 5 m = 2650 fps
average shot distance 80 -130 m
meat damage 30 cm every direction from hole - yet we are often recovering reasonably well held together mushroomed bullets,its not like they splattered or impact was like 3000 fps - my .270 is fairing better meat damage wize.
What is going on here.
20231216_104248 by David Frank Allen, on Flickr
20230717_205227 by David Frank Allen, on Flickr

I agree, for anything CNS a fast frangible bullet works best. You might miss the brain or spinal chord, but there are often enough small bullet fragments to go astray, and do the necessary.

1. a 270 win is fast and therefor terrible with respect to meat damage it causes.
2. lead cup and core bullets kill the best, but are the worst for meat damage
3. point 1&2 and synergistic ;)

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I think almost any bullet, if it hits that last part of the neck would be a killer. There is just so "no nothing" else in that small space, just dead if touched stuff.
Add a cup and core bullet and its even deader.

One problem that I can foresee is that if you miss the spine, the shock to the CNS from a bullet hitting close to the CNS is enough for the animal to drop on the spot. Then you go up to it to cut the throat etc, and it suddenly gets up and runs away because it was just stunned, and not killed. I have seen this happen a few times on animals where a bullet comes close but doesn&#039;t damage the CNS.

Then again, to stir a bit with Treeman ;D :

1. a 270 win is fast and therefor terrible with respect to meat damage it causes.
2. lead cup and core bullets kill the best, but are the worst for meat damage
3. point 1&2 and synergistic ;)

if he is doing neck shots from a heli, they use shotguns, shotguns multiple wounds disrupt the nervous system causing death. That said, I think a supersonic bullet passing a cm from the spine will still cause severe terminal damage to the system - shutdown.

The choppers aren&#039;t what they use most of the time but when they do he shoots a stubby barrelled lightweight savage bolt action in 6.5 creed of all things.

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:o Yoh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! man must be quite able with a rifle.

if he is doing neck shots from a heli, they use shotguns, shotguns multiple wounds disrupt the nervous system causing death. That said, I think a supersonic bullet passing a cm from the spine will still cause severe terminal damage to the system - shutdown.

The choppers aren&#039;t what they use most of the time but when they do he shoots a stubby barrelled lightweight savage bolt action in 6.5 creed of all things.

There is only 1 cm of meat on either side of the vertebrae and is a safe shot. It also looks neater than a head shot animal with eyes popping out. The easiest is with the animal looking away as the nose and teeth are out of the way.

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Yes, this is my chosen "head shot" that you describe, I seldom aim at the head itself - usually the head from behind through neck. If you hit, its down and over and if you miss its a total miss.

The shot I am wanting to explore is the low neck front of shoulders, for those longer shots.