dirty meat and shot placement

@T @treeman 2 years ago

I am tired of dirty meat, cutting away blood meat, then washing and more cutting to get the half digested grass out of wherever it's been blown into.
Cody and I are meat hunters, so full on shoulder shots are really not an option. We have tried double lung shots, through one shoulder in and out behind far side shoulder, behind one in and out on far side in shoulder. We have tried full frontal and we tried in behind last rib and out on far side shoulder, shot placement we have tried in excess - much.
Everytime its either blood meat or gut content in the wound channel or surrounds, and it sucks to work such an carcass. The clients are now told "in on the shoulder bone and out on or behind other side shoulder" - sorry about the meat loss.
I do a lot of headshots, but they are almost entirely on those get lucky at 80 m here pops a head out looking other direction cases - freehand shooting. Lovely clean carcass and no meat damage.

I have been talking to Cody about taking lower neck shots, in front of the shoulder from the side and above the line of the spine if from front or back. The frontal or facing away shots are pretty safe, if you hit the neck its dead, the side on shots I am still pondering.
Tonight we again looked at a carcass we were working and discussed the matter in detail, what shots to take and where to put the bullet.

Who here shoots neck shots ? Tell me about neck shots.

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Replies 66

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@T @treeman OP

Treeman is going to have to do a bit of saving up - although I question the weight of 120gr
7mm 120Gr Barnes TTSX BT (50)[/url[url="https://gunshopdelmas.co.za/shop/bullets/111-barnes-7mm-120gr-ttsx-bt50.html"]BARNES 7MM 120GR TTSX BT(50)

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Problem with these gold plated bullets is that they kill so slowly on smaller game.

@A @againstthegrains

That is so weird. Normally cup and cores make an ugly mess.

[deleted]

That bullet was then traveling at about 2000 fps at 260 m, I get about 2600 fps with 43 gr S335 at muzzle. Is a Sierra PH bullet expected to deform at that velocity, 2000 fps ?

Yes, they usually deform well at lower velocities. I shoot them from my 308, and they do well.

@T @treeman OP

That bullet was then traveling at about 2000 fps at 260 m, I get about 2600 fps with 43 gr S335 at muzzle. Is a Sierra PH bullet expected to deform at that velocity, 2000 fps ?

@T @tripodmvr

Koos Barnard het die onderstaande op Jaracal forum rapporteer.

Dagsê
Soms leer 'n mens dat koeëls glad nie binne-in 'n bok reageer soos jy verwag hulle moet doen nie. Ek help jagters uitneem op die Karooplaas waartoe ek toegang het en het onlangs 'n interessante ding beleef. 'n Jagter het 'n koedoebul op 265m geskiet met sy .308, gelaai met 150gr Siera Prohunter-koeëls. Sy lading is 43gr S335 maar hy besit nie 'n chronograaf nie en weet nie wat die koeëlspoed is nie. Die bok het baie skuins (amper reguit) na hom toe gestaan en hy het gemik om te tref waar die nek en bors bymekaar aansluit (op die regterkant van die bul). Toe die skoot klap, het die koedoe 'n ent gehardloop en neergeslaan op sy regtersy. By die dier aangekom, moes ons hom regdraai vir foto's en dis toe dat ek die bultjie onder die vel hoog op sy linkerboud sien. Ek het daaraan gevoel, besef dit kan dalk die koeël wees en dit dadelik uitgesny. Tot my verbasing haal ek toe die Prohunter uit net om te vind dit het glad nie omgeklink nie.

Toe ons die koedoe omrol, sien ons dat die koeël sowat twee handbreedtes verder agtertoe (en effens hoog) op die blad getref het as waar die jagter gemik het. Met die pens se uithaal het ons gesien dat die koeël tussen twee ribbes in is, 'n gat deur die regterlong gemaak het, deur die grootmaag is en toe verder agtertoe tot in die boud. Ongelukkig kon ons nie sien of daar enige vleisskade was nie want die man het die koedoe met vel aan saamgeneem huis toe dieselfde aand. Soos julle op die foto kan sien, is die koeël byna ongeskonde behalwe vir die groefmerke op die skag.

@N @newton

Treeman is going to have to do a bit of saving up - although I question the weight of 120gr

7mm 120Gr Barnes TTSX BT (50)

BARNES 7MM 120GR TTSX BT(50)

@N @newton

I love Barnes bullets 7mm-08 Deer Slayer Hopeful Ballistics

Forgive me for titling your mysterious YouTube link - a pet hate of mine
Treeman has one of those .. a 7mm-08
Does HE use these bullets ?
Perhaps we could get a - from the field report ?

@N @newton

Then at twice the speed of sound + some, you back where you were, high velocity bullet.

Heavy slow large calibre bullet big wound channel
BUT
Bad trajectory - especially for long range - the new hunting fad ( why you need high velocity )
Unless you shooting at close range - then too much velocity becomes a problem

Catch 22
Perhaps one should be shooting a .338 with a hybrid mono-metal ( SBC ) ????
.338 Win Mag quite popular and NOT a "sniper round" .338 Lapua

Anyone got one and tested using SBC ?
or
Perhaps one of these .. ?

358 Winchester

Why one can never have too many rifles - and calibres

@J @jamesnotbond

Hello Tree
Do you have a picture of one of the damage causing bullets from Cody's rifle. (recovered bullet that is)

@T @treeman OP

Sorry "mentioned above post failed - heres the bullet.
20240831_224700 by David Frank Allen, on Flickr

@T @treeman OP

Now look at this 130 gr .270 cup and core mentioned above bullet at 3000 fps
I am really believing type and size of animal is a great determining factor in meat damage.
20240901_091950 by David Frank Allen, on Flickr

@T @treeman OP

Pappabeer is 'n dokter.

https://www.jaracal.com/viewtopic.php?t=22954

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But yesterday we shot a kudu at 2900 fps using a 130 gr cup and core bullet. First shot was 200 + m second about 60 m, meat damage nothing like the 7mm 08 on impala. I am beginning to believe the size of the animal has a lot to do with it all.

@T @treeman OP

a rod pushed through a animal causes a slow death compared to a lightning bolt through same animal same shot, much slower.

A big rod at 2,500fps

Then at twice the speed of sound + some, you back where you were, high velocity bullet.

@N @newton

At the "other-place" TStone has a very good thread showing bullet performance
Perhaps a big heavy bullet with enough velocity for a .. pass through
Big entry wound - in the correct place - big exit wound - just like a big rod straight through -the vitals

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a rod pushed through a animal causes a slow death compared to a lightning bolt through same animal same shot, much slower.

A big rod at 2,500fps

@T @treeman OP

At the "other-place" TStone has a very good thread showing bullet performance
Perhaps a big heavy bullet with enough velocity for a .. pass through
Big entry wound - in the correct place - big exit wound - just like a big rod straight through -the vitals

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a rod pushed through a animal causes a slow death compared to a lightning bolt through same animal same shot, much slower.

@M @mohamed

Is anyone doing an immediate cutting of the throat to allow bleed out ?

At the "other-place" TStone has a very good thread showing bullet performance

Perhaps a big heavy bullet with enough velocity for a .. pass through
Big entry wound - in the correct place - big exit wound - just like a big rod straight through -the vitals

Yes, we cut the throat and let it bleed out after shooting.

@N @newton

Is anyone doing an immediate cutting of the throat to allow bleed out ?

At the "other-place" TStone has a very good thread showing bullet performance

Perhaps a big heavy bullet with enough velocity for a .. pass through
Big entry wound - in the correct place - big exit wound - just like a big rod straight through -the vitals

@T @treeman OP

Norma Oryx 180gr at a MV of 2520. Bonded bullet.

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Well ! There goes the better bullet theory, your meat damage was no less than Cody meat damage - cheap cup and core versus bonded premium.

So whats with all the meat damage?

@J @janfred

Norma Oryx 180gr at a MV of 2520. Bonded bullet.

@T @treeman OP

I shot my impala with a .308 180gr bullet doing around 2000fps on impact. Yet stil had a lot of blood between the meat layers. Actual blood-shot meat was quite small areas around the entry and exit, but the blood jelly area was huge. Most of that meat went for goulash and trimmings.

My biggest reason to use 180gr bullets is the low impact velocity to reduce meat loss. Doesn't help if blood goes between the layers.

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Bullet make and type?

@J @janfred

I shot my impala with a .308 180gr bullet doing around 2000fps on impact. Yet stil had a lot of blood between the meat layers. Actual blood-shot meat was quite small areas around the entry and exit, but the blood jelly area was huge. Most of that meat went for goulash and trimmings.

My biggest reason to use 180gr bullets is the low impact velocity to reduce meat loss. Doesn't help if blood goes between the layers.

@T @treeman OP

So where is the cut off speed for hyper meat damage ?

I have a feeling that one will find that reduction of meat damage will be directly proportional to speed of kill. No bang flop DRT without that hydrostatic wave happening. (obviously excluding CNS hits)

@A @againstthegrains

270 got that reputation because it was faster than 30 cal. Its not about the caliber or chambering, but the speed the bullet is going when it hits the animal.

@T @treeman OP

A longstanding statement about the 270 was that a shot on the shoulder gave bloodshot meat from nose to tail.

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Seems the 7mm 08 is about the same

@T @tripodmvr

A longstanding statement about the 270 was that a shot on the shoulder gave bloodshot meat from nose to tail.

@J @janfred

Well. Mine hit the scapula at entry and rib on exit.

I did not have a lot of bloodshot meat, but blood collected between the outer layer of meat and the rib layer of meat. To remove the blood, I had to cut the outer layer off. Now, what would have been a good rib turned into goulash.

From the amount of work required, head or neck shots on impala will be my future.

Entry in blue, blood jelly under green.
[attach id=835]IMG_20240827_123022.jpg[/attach]

Exit in blue, blood jelly under green
[attach id=837]IMG_20240827_123153.jpg[/attach]

[deleted]

Question: did the bullets hit bone, or not?

If so, on which side/s did it occur?

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